Why do council staff continue to use sedans and utes for their own private use.Clover you and youre staff should ride into work . I hear cars are even given to staff that live as far as Newcastle.Now thats great for the environment , council staff that work for the city of sydney should live as close as possible to the city so that they can use these bike lanes.Clover You Should practice what you preach to others, until you and youre staff have to catch public transport or ride a bike into work, you remain a hypocryte and you will not be mayor next election I hope.

Clover actually lives close to bourke St and before the cyclways got put in she put a development application in to build an internal carpark at the back of her house, she must have known the loss of parking would greatly effect the local area.

Does clover ride a bike anymaore , I hear she rode a couple of times till she had a fall, then no more bike , back to be driven by a council employee. Clover you fake.

As a Bourke Street resident, I had a very interesting telephone call from a survey company one week ago. A reference and contact number was provided and I was able to call back and confirm that it was a genuine survey funded by the RTA. I was asked 4 questions. 1. How many people are there in your household? 2. How many bicycles does your household own? (none) 3. When was the last time you or anyone else in your family rode a bicycle (over 15 years ago) and 4. To please confirm my postcode was 2010. I think the Libs are gathering statistics to get rid of the bike paths on the basis that not enough people are using them, or intend to use them. I currently don't even own a bike and I'm not going to go out there to buy one, even though the bike path is out the front of my house. I feel fortunate that I am able to walk everywhere I need to go (including 40 mins to work everyday - good exercise). I'm not anti-bike path. I actually think a bicycle network is a great idea. The problem I have, however, is that the current network is dangerous for the cyclists out there (how many intersections do they have to go through?) and it has not been implemented very well. It also seems to have cost an absolute fortune. Surely there were other things the money could have been better spent on?

The bike paths are a waste of valuable space, the roads are so congested with stop starting, and it’s a waste of money. On Bourke Rd the bike path is always empty, taking valuable car parking. It’s repulsive, where do we park when we do deliveries; YOU CANT, because there is an empty bike path taking up all that space.

These cycleways were dreamed up by Clover for her re-election. City Council disregarded international safety standards and ignored an enormous fight by local cyclists, businesses and residents. A gigantic City of Sydney (CoS) PR team has now been hired to use city media, Twitter & Facebook to con people into thinking that these hopeless bike paths are safe and well-liked. CoS seems to think that we're all too stupid to actually go to Bourke Street, Bourke Road, College Street and see how ratepayers' money has been wasted turning much-needed road and parking space into dangerous and for the most part unused cycleways. I anticipate the Libs tear them out

You're like a stuck record, strange street who is somehow able to type up one-eyed articles ...

The bourke street cycleway is fantastic, its now, arguably the best street in Sydney. Thank you Clover, keep at it.

Its a joke I am a resident of bourke st and we are the ones suffering because of these bike paths. Hardly any cyclists use these paths, I am not lying I am stating the truth. I have nothing against city of sydney or clover moore, but these paths are really useless. The people that seem for them are people that not even live in the area and council pr staff. Please a beg readers come and look at the mess for yourselfs and you will see the truth . I think people who live in a particular street should have priority over what happens in that particular street, that did not happen in our beloved bourke st.

Bourke St and Bourke Rd bike paths are dangerous. No one believes Clovers cycleway usage figures because its all spin, no links are provided to documents to verify what she says.Its all a marketing exercise.

Bike Lanes are GREAT!!! Now that I've converted, the ride to work is so much more pleasant than my previous drive - even in bad weather. There is plenty of space on the bike lanes and they are relatively free of congestion (some bits are bad). A vacant bike lane means it is working well. Just like a vacant bus lane means the buses can get through. I hope all the drivers stay in their cars because if they all decided to ride, I'd be back where I started.

This classically myopic NicholsStreet piece - inexpert safety opinions and unsourced anecdotes about car mirrors aside - glosses over the illuminating fact that Clover's vote was especially high in all of the Surry Hills booths; most around double that of her main Liberal opponent on primary votes alone. Most cities around the world would chortle at these quaint tantrums whenever an inner-city parking spot is given over to more holistic and less self-serving uses.

I live on Bourke Street and find the cycleway not only well used by commuters and recreational riders, but it has also got me and a number of my neighbours onto bikes ourselves. While the construction phase was a hassle for all of us, the finished lanes have really changed things for the better. If it wasn't clear before, this vision for Sydney certainly goes in the right direction — and I can guarantee you that all the Bourke Street residents I know think they are a very good thing.

The Sydney cycle-paths are an epic win. Nuff said about that. You'd hope people would vote on more important issues than a little green lane, but then some people can't see past their own noses, can they?

Redfern Robot, You must live in another part of Bourke Street to where I do, because all the Bourke Street residents I neighbour think the bike lanes are a disaster. I have provided ample evidence in response to a previous article: http://www.streetcorner.com.au/news/show... I don't wish to repeat myself, but using research commissioned by the council, I have demonstrated that the bike lanes provide little to no reduction in traffic, no improvement in health/fitness, and I also referenced a study commisioned by Copenhagen's city council condmening the seperated cycleways design concept that Sydney City Council has used. In short, the cycleways are an expensive and despicable greenwashing campaign providing a solution to a problem that didn't exist. As far as Sydney residents are concerned, Clover Moore's attitude hearkens back to another NSW Politician, William Bligh, who once proclaimed, "Damn the laws of England! I make the laws and every son of a b*tch shall be governed by them."

InnerWest - perhaps all the Bourke Street residents you neighbour forgot to vote on state election day. Or maybe, as Clover's unuiformly strong Surry Hills vote seems to demonstrate, they're in the minority? Just sayin'.

SMD, One of the primary complaints of the cycleways is that they are mainly used by non-residents. Similarly, Crown Street and Bourke Street public are major weekend destinations. As such, it is highly disingenuous to associate the vote counts with their immediate surrounds. Indeed, following your logic, it would be implied that the CBD has a higher residential population density than the surrounding suburbs, which is obviously untrue. If, however, you consider the primary vote across Sydney, the final count only put Clover ahead by 54 votes. Certainly not a resounding win.

The buses going through my neighbourhood's streets carries mostly non-residents too; so what? I'm glad to have them there for my use as well. But this article concerns the very localised complaints of NicholsStreet and the residents he purports to represent. If NicholsStreet wanted the election to be a referendum on local streetscape changes in Surry Hills, the vote within that suburb says far more than the broader seat result (which Clover won comfortably when voters' preferences were considered). If NicholsStreet's beef is with the broader cycleway network, he's quite welcome to expand the scope of his lobby "group".

So InnerWest, when are you going to start your protests about non-resident drivers using your street?

I'll protest any road users as soon as they make major changes to road conditions that incorrectly claim benefits for through traffic at great expense to existing residents. Just like we're objecting to now. In light of that, I should clarify my above comment to say, "One of the primary complaints of the cycleways is that they are mainly used by non-residents, at great expense to existing residents."

Just because it isn't to your taste, or because "your" parking spot was switched to a more practical use than storage for a 5-seat vehicle, doesn't mean that this was done a great expense to residents. Au contraire: a recent Fairfax video suggests that property values have risen on Bourke Street as a result of the cycleway and related changes. If the expense were as great as you claim, more Surry Hills residents would've punished Clover Moore instead of giving her a resoundingly high vote.

I'm OK with InnerWest's stance. Given the cycleways are already in place, car drivers should not be able to arbitrarily claim non-existent benefits to have them ripped up. Of course non-resident car drivers are still blocking up the streets at great expense to existing residents.

SMD I bet you work for clovers PR team , youre a spin doctor just like clover is.

amyllane, how about a sensible argument. Not everyone supporting bike lanes is on Clover's payroll. Just some of us have a vision of a future not dominated by people who choose to sit in airconditioned tin cans.

SMD, Since you haven't provided a link or reference for Fairfax video, I can't comment. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume it wasn't the Clover interview I already dismissed in another thread. For the record, I pay for professional car storage, it's not parked on the road, and it's a 2 seater, not a 5 seater. SteveB is on the ball, the changes to the roads have meant that drivers and cyclists visiting the Bourke Street Bakery and similar destinations are far more of a problem than they were before the cycleways. But I'm not protesting in favour of cars, I'm protesting that the cycleways are not what they are claimed to be, they are certainly not green, They do not reduce traffic congestion, and they have dramatically reduced the amenity that I used to enjoy as a resident of Bourke Street. If anyone bothers to take an unbiased look at the data behind the cycleway's propoganda, it's pretty clear it's a bad idea. There is only one legitimate argument for cycleways, and that is simply, "some cyclists want them". Personally, I don't think that's good enough to justify the expenditure.

I think a lot of people must be blind to think no cyclists are using the Bourke Street Cycleway. Just wait at the Bourke St / Cleveland St intersection any morning or afternoon and see bikes backed up waiting for the lights to change. Im wondering where these cyclists would go if the cycleway was removed - what would happen if they all started driving their cars to work instead. Will the streets be less congested then? Innerwest is slightly right in saying that the cycleway isn't just for local residents - what it is is a million dollar cycle superhighway connecting the Botany Bay Cycleway - Cooks River Cycleway - the jobs in the Airport / Mascot Instrustrial area - the thousands of new residents that will be in Green Square area - and the city. At the moment it isn't well conected up so usage isn't as much as it could be - some new cyclist may also be weary of using the Oxford St bus lane. They might also not like rain and cold of winter. BUT looking at cities around the world cycling has to be another form of transport to get to work - buses and cars are not the only way.

The video: http://media.smh.com.au/selections/sydne... . No idea whether you've dismissed it already somewhere else or not - you being the authoritative arbiter of the value of media stories and all. Personally I'd write off 95% of the Daily Telegraph's urban cycling stories as ultra-biased, anti-progressive hogwash posing as straight news... but what do I know? I reckon a site like this one - where an activist like NicholsStreet with presumably no journalism training or certification can write a rambling opinion piece and have it indexed as "news" by Google News - is a pretty hilarious place to opine on the value of other media stories.

The current issue, as I see it, is that the argument about whether the bike lane is a good or bad thing is over. The horse has bolted. I think it was a waste of money but I have the luxury of walking to work. Other (brave) cyclists are using it. The fact, however, that there is a large survey being funded in association with the RTA in relation to bike ownership and usage can only be explained by one thing - money. The statistics can only be used to say a) look at the number of people owning and riding bikes. The bike lane was a great idea, let's put more $ into it to get it connected properly OR b) this was a bad idea, let's pull out now before we waste any more tax payer dollars. I will be very interested in the results.

Hey SMD, yup, that's the video all right, or at least very much like it. Surely you don't really believe a journalist could do a better job telling you how residents feel than the actual residents themselves? Most modern journalists wouldn't know the difference between an mdash and an ndash. Frankly, all media is a bit rubbish, whether it's NicholsStreet, Daily Telegraph, SMH, or the 7pm Project. Everyone has an agenda, it's how we respond that matters. I don't take issue with the creation of the video, but do I question whether that video was an appropriate way to support your position. But since you've appointed me arbiter, I might as well make a blanket statement that all one sided articles aren't worth the paper they're written on (memory they're stored on?). A forum where we are discussing the grass roots effects of personal real world experiences is a far more reliable source of 'truth' than the general media. Take what NicholsStreet has written with a grain of salt, as you would were he a 'real' journo, and look at it as a catalyst for discussion, a way to get to the reality behind the news (on both sides). As a home owner on Bourke Street, I can tell you without doubt our property value has suffered, and it is not as nice a place to live. I'm not a media spokesperson or a spin merchant, I'm just telling you my personal experience. SteveB and RedfernRobot have had different experiences, so you are getting real stories from real people. Isn't that better than poorly edited second hand spin from a journo? If NocholsStreet's article leads people to this forum instead of a council website or newspaper, at least they're hearing our stories "from the horse's mouth". I would also ask people to remember that cyclepaths on Bourke Street are not new, they merely separated them from the rest of the road, and threw in a load of paved sections and extra streetlights to look good on the brochures, a very expensive and unnecessary exercise. Money would have been better spent educating drivers in 'door lane' etiquette, and enforcing safe parking that does not obstruct door lanes. Of course that wouldn't look as good in election brochures.

I wonder if we made Bourke Street one way and reinstated the parking lane Brian Node would stop his articles? My next trick is to make Crown St one way the other direction and remove the 301-3 bus and put in a tram. I would also make Devonshire one way - and put a cycleway from Bourke St to Central - putting a tunnel parallel to the Devonshire tunnel and link up to the Darling Drive cycleway thus cutting out the need to use Oxford St.

InnerWest:- Not saying different perspectives or experiences don't matter - just that your experience as an greatly inconvenienced resident doesn't appear to be a universal or majority one amongst locals. Door lanes are patently unsafe and unappealing to cycle on, and not just for the eponymous "dooring" problem. Even the better ones (Riley Street or the old Bourke one) are regularly obstructed by poorly-parked vehicles, blocked illegally by taxis, prone to moving traffic straying into them and cutting across without care to access left-turn lanes, and then end abruptly at places you really need them (intersections and pinch-points). The only reason door lanes ever found vogue was because they're easier than building real infrastructure that people will want to use. A council engineer could just paint some lines on the road, or some bike logos into the existing kerb line, and then happily tick off "implemented cycle infrastructure on X street" on their management plan reporting. As for driver education: the idea that a generation of sloppy or aggressive driver behaviour can be corrected with signs reading "don't open your door into me" or "give me 3 feet" or "park your damn car properly" is incredibly optimistic. The only countries where drivers "play nice" with bikes as the norm are the ones where most drivers also ride bikes, and driver education was never the catalyst for successful and civilised cycle cultures in those countries - infrastructure was.

SMD, the discussion of personal experiences was in direct response to your concerns regarding the validity of 'news', nothing else. Angst from the cycleways is well in the majority amongst locals I know, but the overlap between our social circles is likely to be minimal. If you review the post-implementaion studies of 'Copenhagen' style cycleways you will find that most of the issues you described are, in fact, exacerbated by the cycleways. Particularly problems at intersections. It is certainly true that a painted line and a bike logo does not cost tens of millions of dollars, nor does it require years of road work, new multuiple streetlights, or additional high ongoing maintainance costs. It is equally true that the current cycleway provides a deceptive semblance of safety for unskilled riders along a particular route, whilst simultaneously creating animosity between cars and bicycles. On the other hand a driver education program improves driver/rider relations, and improves safety for ALL road users across a wide range of roads. The council could easily pay for it with the fines from incompetent drivers that feel they need to park 4 feet away from the kerb. Everybody wins, except the incompetent drivers, but they shouldn't be driving land-boats in the first place. Instead we get a system where everyone loses, but it LOOKS like the councils taken positive expensive action. Again, amongst "civilised" cycle cultures Copehagen is held up as the prime example. Infrastructure implemented there, and copied here, has been shown, by their own research, to have failed, having increased the number of accidents. The prevalence of cycling in many European cities is a result of cars being introduced to cycling cultures; rather than vice versa, as is the case in Australia. That's not a good or bad thing, it's certainly not "un-civilised", it just is. There's nothing to be ashamed of for not having a strong cycling culture. You might not like it, but it's not the social disease it's made out to be. The separated cycleways really are a solution in search of a problem.

While you personally may not see a civilised or widespread cycling culture as important or worthwhile, successive governments of all shapes and sizes seem to. Even incompetent governments (outgoing NSW Labor) or regressive ones (the new Coalition government with their "rip up the bike paths" roads minister) at least pay lip-service to increasing cycling for transport. Denmark has a lot of work to do before they can match the Dutch, who are more widely considered the world leaders in mainstream cycling and cycle safety. I suggest you read David Hembrow's blog for extensively-referenced and beautifully documented snapshots on infrastructure at its best, with an emphasis on his home city of Assen (40% of trips by bike): http://hembrow.blogspot.com. Even he has his criticism on Copenhagen, though from a different angle than yours.

Sorry SMD, I don't think I was quite clear. "Civilisation" and "Cycling" are two unrelated concepts. Not opposites, not irreconcilable, just unrelated. One neither implies or refutes the other. Cyclists are not "better" people, nor are they "worse". Cycling cities are not "better" cities, nor are they "worse". Cycling prevalence may or may not make a city the desination of choice for some travellers. It certainly has no bearing on my travel decisions. Just that it's your preference does not make it everyone's preference. I have have yet to see any objective evidence that the Bourke Street cycleway is a benefit to Sydney. If we are more likely improve population fitness and minimise our environmental impact better without a cycleway, why would we pay to build one? I can, however, see why we'd pay to remove one. If you can produce a study demonstrating a lower incidence of injury, across all road users, due to the combined factors of the installation of cycleways and increased numbers of cyclists, I might change my mind. But the only place we'll get that is a retrospective on Sydney in about 5-10 years time, but by then the damage will have been done.

By the way, the assertion that Australia never had a mainstream cycling culture simply isn't true. In fact the same thing happened here and in other New World Anglophone cities as in Europe: bicycles were mainstream transport until government policy was shifted heavily in favour of private car ownership and sprawl development in the 1950s, back when the consequences didn't seem so fraught with trouble. The difference in the Netherlands, Denmark et al. was that they started reversing this in the 70s amidst the oil crises and the sharply-rising cycling fatalities, rebuilding cycle infrastructure and discouraging cars in city centres that weren't designed to handle them. In case you don't believe Australia ever had a bike culture, here's a few gems from the days where everyone rode bikes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/statelibrar... http://www.flickr.com/photos/statelibrar... http://www.nla.gov.au/apps/cdview?pi=nla...

Personally I think an inner city congested with idling cars on a daily basis is pretty uncivilised - and that if even half of those in the cars were on bicycles or foot instead would be more civilised. Car traffic reduction and traffic calming brings objective improvements that go beyond one's personal taste; I haven't yet met anyone that prefers traffic snarls, filthy air and traffic noise over the the quiet tyre noise of a bicycle - which might be why I haven't yet heard any Bourke Street residents argue for for the pre-Eastern Distributor 4-lane highway to be reinstated on their street.

I never asserted Australia never had a cycling culture, just that we don't now, and that that's OK. It certainly doesn't warrant millions of dollars worth of badly designed, badly executed cycleway. More carefully executed long commute cycleways, preferably through parkland between major population centers, that I'd be right behind, especially if was accompanied by a running track, but what they've built is absurd.

The issue with using parkland to create the cycle commute links within Sydney is that, um, the parkland doesn't exist. If you think our current transport culture (i.e. car-centricity) is OK then it's little wonder you think the cycleways are bad. My word; the majority of the usable street width from Palm Beach to Penrith to Waterfall has been handed over carte-blanche to motor vehicle use, with the occasional grudging concessions to pedestrians if it doesn't inconvenience motorists in any way... reassign the slightest morsel of this road space over for bicycle use and watch the privileged motorists go bloody troppo.

InnerWest - it is so early stages in turning around the idea of cycling as a commuting option. So many people still think it is dangerous when it isn't. I live on Bourke Street and have been riding to and from work for 10 years. There has been a massive increase in cyclists in the last few years - but more can cycle and will cycle in the future if it is shown to be safe. Safety comes with this cycleway - of not having to ride with cars - to not riding in the very dangerous door lane. This cycle lane allows people to go slower therefore safer. In my eyes no one should need to drive to work or the shops or school or the pub or the restaurant if they are less than 5km from it. But in Australia we are so car centric our first answer is to drive. We need to change that. People who live close to the city are the first people to target as people who need to cycle. If there are going to be 20,000 new people living in Green Square - you would want a large portion of them cycling rather than driving to work each day. There is also the next thing of safety in numbers. With this increase in cyclists - motorists will be more aware of us on the road - where before they might run into you - if you are riding by yourself - they will have difficulty riding into 6 or 7 of us. Or they might still ride into 6 or 7 of us as they listen to Alan Jones and think we all should die.

Live on Bourke st , 1 car 4 bikes 3 people. Love the look of the street now but don't use the cycleway. It should have been on Crown along the ridge to the city. Thats where we still ride. Why should I ride up a hill when I don't have to?? Bourke street now is too narrow , too many intersections and feels more dangerous than before. Not thought through. Clover says she listens to locals but thats a complete Lie. She will do what she wants to do no matter what anyone thinks.

Llewster , just a quick note for you as a Bourke st local. Re the safety , go to the Rainford street intersection and pretend your a car entering Bourke street. On your left you can have bikes still doing close to 40?? and on the right about 25 say. Look at the sight lines. The trees on your left block much of the view and on the right not much better. Couple this with the crazy amount of riders not using a front light and you can see there is a disaster waiting to happen. Safer to be out further on the road to me.

Even if the price of petrol exceeds $2 a litre the various cycleways around inner Sydney will not be well used. Bourke St cycleway doesn’t connect to other separated cycleways. And College St stands alone! Clovers white elephants!

Bourke st cycleway is just slow, stopping every 10 metres and its dangerous cars crossing it. I use the road. Property values will fall with the street parking gone. Clover new what was coming & built her own garage

bstreet - i agree Crown St would have been so much better - in fact it was proposed to put the cycleway on Crown St first. But Crown St is a State Government RTA Road and they rejected it as a cycleway. I wonder how they will think of putting a tram on it - but i feel Riley might be the tram option of the future. Although Bourke does have a hill - after putting this cycleway in - it has made the surface very smooth and makes that hill not that hard to climb. But on the flip side its made the downward run very fast - and as you say they do hit Rainford at 40kph. There might be a big case for big mirrors for both cyclists and drivers at that intersection. There might be a case also for cyclists to use the road coming down the hill and cyclists using the cycleway going up the hill. And making Bourke St one way again coming down the hill.

InnerWest, I think you need to do some more research because SMD & Llewster are far more correct. On bike culture history, According the book, Confessions of a Bicycle Nut (can't remember the author) Melbourne was probably the world epicentre of cycling until the rich started buying cars. Europe didn't so much have a bike culture more than Aust, it's just that they realised the error of excesive car use in the 60-70s and turned back to bikes by creating bike paths that "women felt comfortable using". (Not just bike lanes exposed to cars.) While here in Aust with our more open country we didn't realise the error. Even in the 70's we had lots of kids riding to school (I did!), at least of the city centres, but more & more parents taught kids to stay off the road & out of the way of dangerous cars, so the cars became less careful & more expectant of a free run. Plus "stranger danger" fears grew & more families got 2nd cars so kids started getting driven to school which made roads more dangerous again to everyone - bikes, peds & other drivers. (Drivers do tend to slow down when more kids and uncertaincy are in the road environment & speed up when the road is more like a "car only" zone.) Copenhagen has worked! Although there are some issues with particular lanes in particular circumstances. I haven't been to Sydney for a few years so I haven't ridden Bourke St recently so I can't comment on them specifically. But read your history on Copenhagen because shop owners there screamed blue murder about loss of parking too until they realised they made more money AFTER bike lanes were installed and then everyone jumped on the band wagon. Copenhagen, Dutch & most other European cities have lower cycle crash rates than Aust but it's not just because they "always had a cycle culture". It's a combination of the 5 E's needed for social change - Engineering, Education, Encouragement, Enforcement & Evaluation and the fact that they started social change 40+ years ago. All those E's lead to 5 more E's - Empowerment, Economy, Experience, Ethics & Enlightenment if I can use that without being labelled a Buddist or a hippy! Build the bike lanes to Empower people to use alternatives. It'll assist the Economy in so many ways most people don't realise. Hopefully the Education & Experience will improve Ethics and lead to Enlightment :-) Not everything in places like Copenhagen has been perfect. Sometimes they tried something and it didn't work so they went back and improved it - much like engineers also do with roads! Give it time and keep talking about the issues because it's all good and leads to improvements in facilities and people's attitudes over time. Just don't expect instant positive results. (And no I'm not a Spin Doc for CoS. I'm ex-Sydney, cycle commuter since the 70's, road engineer and living in Qld.)

sorry typo above - we had lots of kids riding to school (I did!), at least OUT of the city centres

BobbyOtel - I totally agree council staff should ride not drive where possible and have suggested that at the council where I work. We have staff getting free fuel but driving 90km or so each way to work from other council areas and across the state border! Some staff do need the cars for call outs, tools etc but office bound managers and decision makers should be forced to catch PT and cycle so many times per month so they learn what the problems are and be more inclined to fix them instead of just spending more money on cars because it suits them. If governments want to claim to be green & cost effective then they should put OUR money where their "Vision statement" & triple bottom line is! bourkestlocal - Clover knew what was coming & built her own garage. That's what all car owners SHOULD do. In Japan you can't even register a car until an inspector has come to your property and measured the car space you have ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY not the public funded street. They even do this in country areas where they don't have such regular public transport, not just the city centres. In Australia, we should change the laws so that if you don't have the parking space, you don't buy a car or you have to put it in a private parking station somewhere nearby. Our public transport & cycleways could be improved dramatically if they spent the money on it instead of subsidising car transport by spending $Bs on road and giving $Bs to car & petrol companies in manufacturing and "clean fuel" subsidies etc.

Bourke Street/Road is a more natural trunk route option than Crown as well, given the corridor runs all the way from the harbour to Green Square to the domestic airport. I ride a heavy euro-style bike and my fitness is average, but the climb north towards Albion on the cycleway is always easy and pleasant. The surface is exceptionally smooth and it's easier still when you're not full of unwanted adrenaline from the plumber's truck behind you trying to hurry you up the hill; or from the cars rushing past a few centimetres away; or from the expectation that a driver's side door might open into you at any second.

Also - if the intersection design at Rainford, Davies et al. proves troublesome, one solution could be to give it the Devonshire Street treatment: pedestrian crossing; cycleway painted through without interruption; cars entering Bourke give way to both. Maybe there isn't the room for the same car "waiting bay" space or the slowing S-curves on the cycleway - but the car volumes on these side streets are far lower than Devonshire as well so they may not even be necessary.

SMD , if there were no bike lanes at all you would naturally ride crown from green square is what i;m saying. If heading to the city do you go right up to Tailor square and then down the hill again ? What about on the way home? Do you or even have you ever ridden to the city using the path all the way to Cowper st then up the lift to the Domain and across the park? Thats how Council wanted us to ride. Imagine that on the way home. Sorry mate its a stupid design on a road where one wasn't needed in the first place. On the intersection design. I was in the queue at Bourke st Bakery one morning and 2 riders clipped each other on that south side bend. Must have just touched handlebars or something. The rider heading south came off but the other was ok so not sure if i'm liking that design either.

I'd usually ride up Bourke and take Oxford Street to the city. There are other ways: the William Street door lanes, the Domain lift and a plethora of backstreets - but I haven't sensed that the Council is pushing us to take the lift; that section isn't even marked as a route on their cycle map. I understand what you mean about Crown Street following a ridge line through Surry Hills, but Crown is still plenty hilly north of Oxford Street - the climb from Burton to Oxford is a killer. Crown/Baptist terminates at a T-intersection on the south end; it was a trade-off between a direct corridor along Bourke and a ridge through Surry Hills, and I think it was a decent choice. Give me a slight grade climb on a separated path over mixed traffic any day of the week. As for the accident you witnessed: my biggest criticism of the cycleways so far is the width. 1.2-1.5m is better than any door lane I've used lately, but most Dutch two-way paths give 2m per lane and have a bigger separation buffer. This is the direct result of preserving most of the on-street parking to placate people like NicholsStreet. I hope they're less coy about removing parking for future paths so they can be built to a Dutch standard.

Have you ever been door'd? I came close once when I wasn't paying attention but thats it. Maybe i'm lucky or maybe I just watch for those sort of things. I have been riding around the city for years and so probably have that 6th sense you need but I think thats something we all should have instead of just being wrapped in cotton wool. Skills , correct attitude and experience is what riders , drivers etc need not just more signs , lights , rules etc.

Dooring can happen so suddenly that its scary. I always check cars im about to pass in the door lane - tell tale dark shadows in the drivers seat etc. But if you are going too quickly - and there are tinted windows - you can't always be sure. I know a lot of cyclist friends who only ride in the car lane because of it. But my scariest moments aren't being doored but avoiding people opening doors too late - so ive just got enough time to slow - but not stop - this is where i swerve into the car lane - that is scary - a bus might be coming - a fast car might be coming. Oxford Street at night when there are cars parked in the bus lane is the worst time for me. In terms of Crown vs Bourke - Bourke is for beginner local weary cyclists. You have to understand that this cycleways is all about attracting more people to cycling. Its not for all current regular cyclists. Regular cyclists may use it - i actually like it to go up the hill. I don't like the squeeze on Crown Street going north of Albion St toward Oxford. There is a truck outside of the Salvos there and a squeeze point with the lights near the Crown St Public School. But bicycle infrastructure in any form I feel is so needed in Sydney that Im all for the Bourke St Cycleway - there will be teething problems but if it gets people cycling I don't care - people will get used to it.

re: Innerwest: StreetCorner allows people to make comments from their neighbourhoods.Its a valuable way people can express opinions. Falling circulations of the mass media and rise of StreetCorner , Twitter etc., are due to the fact that people want to read articles without the spin. Thats what politicians like Clover Moore and others needs to realise.

Ride2Wk, at the risk of repeating myself, I never claimed Australia was historically without a cycling as a dominant (or at least popular) transport mode. I claim that it is not the case in the present day, particularly in Sydney. Almost all of the pro-cycleway arguments are based on the premise that increasing the number of cyclists is a good thing. I claim it is neither good nor bad, just different. As someone who walks to work (>45 minutes each way), I walk further than most (CERTAINLY NOT ALL) inner city commuters cycle. Be clear that I do not object to cyclists, but I do not believe that separated cycleways are a solution. Bicycles belong on the road, and drivers and cyclists need to learn to get along. That means cars must stop terrorising cyclists, and cyclists must stop flaunting traffic laws. A separated cycleway does nothing except encourage cyclists without road cycling skills, and that is NOT a good thing. From the study CoS commissioned from AECOM, based on data from Portland, following the insitution of cycleways, 51% of new cycling activity comes from previous use of public transport; 26% comes from pedestrians, and only 10% comes from car commutes; the final 13% is 'induced demand'. These are the figures the City of Sydney is relying on for justification of the cycle ways, indeed their documentation clearly states that part of the advertised return on investment comes from saving money by reducing public transport services. Based on the Portland study, the cycling activity replacing pedestrian activity is 2.6 times that of cars, and 77% of all new cycling replaces existing 'green' travel options. As I have noted in another thread, according to the DoP's Dec 2008 "TransFigures" the Sydney CBD already had journeys to work by "Vehicle drivers" down to 16% in 2006, the same as it had in 2001, and 20% of that involved carrying a passenger. So as a percentage of transport use for the CBD, vehicle usage is already pretty good, and didn't change much. In Surry Hills, car use for journeying to work decreased from 35% to 34.9%, and walking and cycling increased. 2006 data shows pedestrian traffic represented 11.3% of Surry Hills journeys to work, whilst cycling represented 1.5%. This would have obviously changed further in the past 5 years, but does demonstrate the high incidence of pedestrian traffic in Surry Hills, beaten only by Randwick's health/education precinct. The logical supposition from the data set is that, due to the already low levels of vehicle use in the area in question, increases in the use of bicycles will come primarily from the disproportionately high levels of pedestrian activity. There is therefore, little benefit in encouraging artificial growth of bicycle travel in the CBD and inner west. Ride2Wk, considering your experience as a road engineer, you would probably be appalled by the way the Bourke Street infrastructure has been implemented. But that aside, can you provide any well executed studies demonstrating reduced Injury among road users as a result of installing cycleways? For general information, if anyone really believes cycleways increase safety, I refer you to Trafitec's study "Road safety and perceived risk of cycle facilities in Copenhagen", which was commissioned by Copenhagen's Council.

Dear All, First of all apologies that our site doesn't allow paragraphs for comments, I know it makes long comments difficult to read so sorry about that. We'll have that fixed in our new site. Following a comment on a separate article I also thought I'd let you know that anyone is welcome to publish articles on Streetcorner. We don't dictate who submits news, we just provide a platform for locals to share whatever news and views they would like with the community. It's about giving locals control of the agenda. So if you would like to submit news or opinion pieces on cycleways or any other topic, just register (confirms your email) then go to "Submit a Story" and follow the prompts. Your article will then appear on the home page & we'll also send out to our Twitter followers etc. Don't hesitate to get in contact if you have any questions. Cheers Streetcorner, YOUR voice in the community

It would be really good if everyone walked to work instead of driving, catching a bus/train or riding a bike. But not everyone wants to take 45mins or more to get to work. I could walk to work and take 45mins as well (ive done it a few times when my tyre got a puncture) but 15mins by bike is a lot better - and would be better for a lot of people if they knew it is so quick to get to the city - and they would be exercising rather than sitting in a car or bus. The big thing as ive mentioned before is this new Green Square development - 20,000 new residents. Now most will use the train station as the State Govt is now going to subsidies the tix so they will cost the same as all other train stations. BUT not all the apartments are going to be right at the station - buses are already becoming packed. 301-3 is such a slow infrequent bus - and Crown St and the city is already overloaded with buses/taxis (a flatmate used to catch the bus from the city and I would ride - i would usually beat them by 10mins most times). Walking is more like 1hr from Green Square than 45mins. This cycleway is just giving people options - safe options. I still believe this cycleway is safer and less threatening than riding with cars and buses on Crown. As someone who doesn't ride a bike you can't really know of the uncertainty of cycling in the door lane or in the car lane. This new cycleway is an amazing new freedom for us - and I can't wait for more of them. The Portland study may mention only a few car drivers became cyclists - but im sure the fact only a few less cars were on the road makes a massive difference - only a few cars take up so much space.

Llewster the separated cycleways take up a lot of road space like College St and it removed a lot of Hyde Park to make it. However much spin Clover Moore says, its used a little bit in peak hour and empty the rest of the day.Its wasted space and doesn't link with other separated paths.

Llewster, I understand you feel safer on the cycleway (even though statistics show it's more dangerous, so it's actually a false perception of safety), and I understand that the cycleways will probably reduce the number of driver commutes by a couple of percentage points... until it rains. That does not warrant $75 million dollars worth of cycleway. Especially when the whole argument really boils down to just some cyclists preferring cycleways. Millions of dollars of cyclweway is also a poor bandaid solution for badly managed (and downright stupid) outsourcing of public transport to private companies, such as Green Square and the airport line. As you observed, you'd rather cycle 15 minutes than walk 45, thus giving up a handful of health benefits (walking being healthier than riding for a given distance), that is not so different to someone preferring a bus to riding; in fact encouraging riding over walking would have a slight negative health impact, as the data reflects people who DO walk, not people who might. Cyclists do not need cycleways, they're just 'nice', and that is not worth the cost and inconvenience to everyone else. Why should a few cyclists scared of the road get 75 million dollars instead of hospitals, education or environmental investment? Of course, on top of the $75m total planned outlay, there are increased maintenance costs and a huge environmental footprint in terms of construction and embodied energy, that's not worth it being 'nicer' for some cyclists who lack the skill or motivation to ride on the road. And incidentally, as a runner, I'm the exception in a family of cylists, so I am aware of the hazards, and the only serious cycling injuries family members have had have either been on the track or riding in Europe, Despite using the old Bourke Street 'door lanes' for years. Now they prefer to ride Crown, because they believe the Bourke Street is too dangerous. Frankly, if you are going to ride, do yourself a favour and ride safely on Crown, or if you insist on using Bourke, use the road. Better yet, do your body and the environment a favour, and walk.

I fully make up for lack of exercise not walking to work by riding around Centennial Park a few laps. Not to say either that my riding would burn considerably less than walking - it all depends on how fast you walk and how fast you ride. But what ever the burn rate - walking and riding are all going to be much better for you than sitting in a bus. College St Cycleway is awesome - even InnerWest must admit that having that cycleway reduces cyclists going through Hyde Park. With the increase in cyclist because of the Bourke St Cycleway (and increase generally in cycling due to the fact people are noticing infrastructure being built for cycling) - there was a need to build the College St Cycleway - if it wasn't built Hyde Park and the conflict between cyclists and pedestrians would have increased massively. What is needed though is a proper East West cycleway. Currently the Park St bus lanes are the only route linking College to Kent. It would be good to have some bike lane even on Park to indicate it as a route. But the biggie we should aim for is King St being a cycleway all the way up from where it stops currently at Clarence - going up to Macquarie St and the start of the College St Cycleway - till that happens College St will be infrequenly used fully. I don't think you'll be seeing much need for maintenance on the cycleway compared to pot holes in the road. Cyclists aren't as heavy as trucks. The over engineered cycleway wasn't something cyclists really asked for - but RTA insisted on many of the treatments to intersections for safety reasons - and I feel a lot of the intersections are probably a lot safer for pedestrians and cyclists if motorists go slower. Lower gutters are nice too as you won't get pedal strike happening. Considering the Bourke St Cycleway has been open fully for less than a year and we are in the middle of winter - it isn't fully tested - and is something new for Sydney. I look forward to seeing more cyclists using it - see if it does attract new cyclists etc. As things were before the cycleway was open - people weren't cycling because it was too scary - now more are taking it up.

Your very selective statistics, maybe. What screams volumes is that the Netherlands, with by far the most separated path and the highest bike use of any country, has not only the safest cycling in the world (lowest fatality rate per km) but also some of the safest driving, with a lower car fatality rate per km than Australia. The latest count on Bourke Street showed a 165% increase of riders in the PM peak since the previous count, so I guess not everyone "prefers to ride Crown". I prefer Bourke because I don't have to fret about sharing the road with cars like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiyldLzkc...

My "very selective statistics" are directly from a report commissioned by Copenhagen's Council. I didn't say everyone prefers to ride crown, I simply intimated that they should if they were sensible. I cannot access youtube from my work network, so I can't see the car you're talking about. I don't undertand what you think an increase in the number of cycleway users shows... I already showed data supporting the cycleways would be used to some extent, primarily by people who were pedestrians or used public transport. A 165% increase in cycleway usage is not necessarily a good thing, it is, in fact, part of the problem I'm pointing out, that's a 165% increase in potential accidents waiting to happen. 165% increase in cyclists sharing the roads would be a positive trend, but that's not what you've shown. Can you also please provide references for your stats?

Llewster: Over a given distance walking will burn more calories than just about anything (except crawling or other slow difficult activities), cycling will burn more than walking over a given time. Hence, when discussing a commute over a fixed distance, walking, as the less energy efficient form of locomotion, burns more calories, and provides longer intervals of low impact mild cardiovascular exercise. Unless you're using doing high intensity interval training for a high level of 'after-burn', speed isn't relevant. Also, I walk through Hyde Park every morning, and have for the past 5 or so years, you can't seriously believe that the cycleway has reduced the number of cyclists crossing the park? I definitely have to dodge more cyclists in Hyde Park now than I did a few years ago. There's even a Sydney Cycling tour for tourists that goes through the park. Furthermore, why does everyone keep putting up the "more people will cycle" argument as if it's a good thing? Can anyone please explain the benefits in increasing cyclist numbers in the inner west and metro areas? Please provide real evidence, with references, not repeated spin and personal conjecture.

Sydney Council's cycleways have taken away about 100 city parking meters, each one earning some $30,000 to $40,000 per year. This has cost ratepayers $3M to $4M in lost revenue.Now is the time to ask cyclists using cycleways to pay for them.

I can't believe that all 100 missing parking spots were metered - Kent St still has a lot of parking next to the cycleway - and none of Bourke St parking spots were metered. College St is the only loss. But I haven't really looked that hard. Ive heard they are going to double the cost of parking meters in the city - so lost revenue will obviously come out of that a bit. If they start putting tolls on cycleways we might as well put tolls on footpaths as well. It might discourage people from going into the city. People might just sit at home and never go outside. Art Galleries are free - so is this Sydney Festival thing - all these things are absurd - we should put tolls on all these things. Its free to walk through the Botanical Gardens and Centennial Park - who pays for all this stuff. I can go to the beach for free - is amazing - we can start charging for all this stuff. Too much stuff today is free - unbelievable.

I never go through Hyde Park now that the College St Cycleway is in. I found the dodging of pedestrians just a bit stupid - as im sure pedestrians found it annoying. The cyclist going through Hyde Park are just inconsiderate - are in a hurry - don't mind dodging things. Or maybe they don't know about the College St Cycleway. Or they are all rebels and don't like to be confined to a cycleways. If you removed the College St Cycleway I suspect there will be a few more cyclists going through Hyde Park.

Nichols Street, on the contrary, if someone is taking a dedicated piece of space, then they should pay. When drivers start paying for roads, then cyclists should pay for cycleways. While it is all coming out of consolidated revenue, then it is all the same. Parking spaces are different. ONE car is using it to the exclusion of others. They should pay - and they should pay the full cost of providing that space, not the heavily subsidised rate they get at the moment.

"Why does everyone keep putting up the "more people will cycle" argument as if it's a good thing? Can anyone please explain the benefits in increasing cyclist numbers in the inner west and metro areas? Please provide real evidence, with references, not repeated spin and personal conjecture." This is the ultimate in questions - i could go on and on in many direction - climate change - health - livable streets/cities - increased safety (less cars) - looking at examples from cities around the world. But I can see im banging up against a brick wall with you. I think we will just have to do a massive survey first of all the new users of the cycleways and see who they are - if they are car drivers who have converted to cycling we have won - if they are pedestrians we've lost. Here is something from one of the cities most of the councilors saw a video on cycleways and unanimously voted for cycleways after seeing. http://www.streetfilms.org/complete-stre.../ whether they complete the transformation of Sydney and mall George Street is yet to be seen.

I'm unable to play the video via my work PC, but I can comment on some of the New York Streets in question: Columbus, First and Second Avenues are all one way, 5 lane, busy inner city streets, they're huge. I can't think of any comparable traffic situations in Sydney. Comparing adding a cycleway to First Avenue vs adding a Cycleway to Bourke Street is nonsensical. My problem is that claims are made regarding "climate change - health - livable streets/cities - increased safety (less cars)" supposedly by "looking at examples from cities around the world." But there has been no hard evidence presented. All the actual research I can find (though I admittedly haven't looked too hard) leads to the opposite conclusion, as does personal experience from living on the Bourke Street: Unneccesary environmental footprint from construction of infrastructure - less health benefit than if the focus was placed on increasing pedestrian activity - Reduced amenity for residents - Reduced safety due to dangerously implemented cycleways designs. I'm absolutely prepared to have my mind changed, I would love to believe that all the expense and inconvenience was to a greater good, but I need evidence, not scuttlebutt.

Dear All, The Bourke Street Cycleway is clearly an issue locals are passionate about, albeit with differing views as to the success or failure of this particular cycleway design. Streetcorner itself hasn't written a story on Sydney's Cycleways for quite some time, preferring to let the community initate the dialogue. However, given the passion on this topic, Streetcorner will approach Clover Moore and the City of Sydney with questions from the community (and some of our own)and share the answers with you. What questions would you like the City of Sydney and/or Clover Moore to answer on the Bourke Street Cycleway? Kind regards Streetcorner, YOUR voice in the community

InnerWest:- Ah, the Copenhagen council report. You mean the one that showed an overall increase in injuries at junctions when cycleways were built, but qualified that safety could be improved because the negative effects were "clearly dependent on a number of design factors and regulatory conditions"? I guess the City of Sydney did their homework - clearly every effort was made to keep parking on Bourke Street (avoiding a blowout in sidestreet parking demand and thus an increase in turning cars), and all non-signalised intersection crossings are raised (the Copenhagen report also showed big safety benefits for pedestrians at raised exits). I was surprised by the car parking finding in the report, but it vindicates the council's efforts to accommodate parking on Bourke. But my FAVOURITE bit of the Copenhagen report: "The radical effects on traffic volumes resulting from the construction of cycle tracks [separated cycleways] will undoubtedly result in gains in health from increased physical activity. These gains are much, much greater than the losses in health resulting from a slight decline in road safety." Sorry mate, your source has actually undone your whole argument. Don't hate the player; hate the game.

So SMD you are saying that Yes the cycle ways are not safe BUT thats ok because at least people are fitter in general and this out weighs the increase in injuries???? So if i'm already fit I now have increased chance of injury. Thats a crazy way of looking at it.

Uhm, no. The Copenhagen report says that the overall positive health benefits to society not only greatly outweighed the slight negative safety effect, but that the negative safety effect ITSELF was only ever the result of "design factors and regulatory conditions" particular to certain types of Copenhagen intersections which can be fixed - indeed, which the City of Sydney has fixed in their design for Bourke Street. Thanks for playing though.

*sigh* I'm with Llewster; this is very much "banging one's head against brick wall". It's a shame there is so much inexplicable hostility towards a project with far more substantial benefits than drawbacks... driving times on Bourke Street (a 40km/h residential street, bear in mind, not a main road) are comparable to before, with car parking maintained to the greatest extent possible and less conflict in the traffic lane between cars and bikes. No amenity is lost for pedestrians - with the same footpath width as before, an upgraded plaza opposite the Hopetoun and an upgraded crossing near the Beresford. The streetscape is, in my opinion at least, more handsome than it's ever been. But most importantly, residents and workers who wouldn't cycle in mixed traffic (i.e. the overwhelming majority of the population) now have an attractive, convenient, time-saving new transport option that can only become better as new routes are built across the city to link with it.

"Unneccesary environmental footprint from construction of infrastructure - less health benefit than if the focus was placed on increasing pedestrian activity - Reduced amenity for residents - Reduced safety due to dangerously implemented cycleways designs." I want evidence too and not scuttlebutt on how much environmental footprint the cycleway was in its making - can it be somehow be offset by all the planting of gardens in the middle of the road. I want evidence that the cycleway is making people healthier and that it isn't just pedestrians on bikes which would mean that the cycleway is making us less healthy. I want some evidence that the cycleway is less safe than riding in the door lane or riding with traffic - give me a percentage on that as more people cycle now than before - so if the same number of people were injured now as before the percentage would go down. "I'm absolutely prepared to have my mind changed, I would love to believe that all the expense and inconvenience was to a greater good" - this can only be shown with time - not just straight after it has been completed - local residence of Surry Hills may not use it because as you say they are in walking distance to the city - why would they need to cycle. You have to consider this cycleway in the whole bike plan scheme of things - its not all connected up yet - have you seen any signs pointing how to get to the Airport-Cooks River-Botany Bay-Newtown-Randwick - the cycleways haven't been linked up. But that is all future - and if this state government dislikes bicycles and doesn't want to fund bike commuting routes - yes the Bourke St Cycleway will be a white elephant - or they could remove it and everyone can go back to driving their cars. In the meantime lets do some surveys to give you some evidence. Questions to ask cyclist on cycleway - 1. Are you new to cycling? if yes ask what method of commuting did you use before? - 2. Did you find the cycleway too expensive, over engineered and environmentally destructive in how long it took to make? 3. Why don't you walk to work instead of cycling? 4. Do you find this cycleway dangerous? What parts? 5. Rank in order of importance these reasons why you cycle now - a. reduced polution/climate change b. because its healthy c. its cheap d. its quicker e. its fun f. its safer now than before g. peer presure/friends do it

SMD , I agree , getting on your bike for short trips around town is the way to go. I joined my son in the city a few weeks back .He was traveling by Bus and I was on the bike. When we headed home to Surry Hills I think I had already finished my coffee before he made it home. Bike is by far the fastest way to get around. BUT......there is always a "but" isn't there. I don't or haven't had or seen the need to use any cycleways yet and can't see that I will. Bourke st from the Hopetown down the hill is much narrower now and I feel less safe on the road in that section in a car or on the bike but then the cycle way is also too narrow with too many crossings . Fine if your just cruising but actually trying to go somewhere I will still be on the road. We now have a door zone here for cars as well as bikes and I can see there will be future problems. I agree though the street scape is fantastic.

Hi StreetCorner. Thank you for taking an interest and going to Clvoer and the City of Sydney to ask questions. I would like to know whether the CoS or Clover are aware of the current RTA survey in relation to bicycle ownership and the use of cycleways? IT was commissioned after the Liberal Party got into power.

Its a dangerous cycleway, getting my children out of my car on passengers side, the car door extends out over the Bourke St cycleway lane going south. With cyclists riding really fast its a hazard. Car doors actually stop cyclists so they move onto the northbound lane! What a crazy design!

It's true that a passenger door can reach the southbound cycleway lane if opened fully. This is still is far less dangerous than a shoulder lane because of a bigger gap and, more importantly, visibility. A left-side passenger in a parked car has a straight-ahead view from their seat of approaching cycle traffic before they open the door. With a shoulder lane, the driver or right-side passenger needs to turn nearly 180° (and sometimes press close to the window) to match this visibility. Motor vehicles in the next lane are easy to spot and even to hear, but many drivers don't scan thoroughly enough as a matter of routine to spot a bike rider in the shoulder lane - even with extra awareness from being a rider myself I'm sometimes guilty of forgetting to check the door-zone every time I open a car door.

Selective reading and selective quotation it seems... Here is the whole closing paragraph: "Taken in combination, the cycle tracks and lanes which have been constructed have had positive effects as far as traffic volumes and feelings of security go. They have, however had a negative effect on road safety. The radical effects on traffic volumes resulting from the construction of cycle tracks [separated cycleways] will undoubtedly result in gains in health from increased physical activity. These gains are much, much greater than the losses in health resulting from a slight decline in road safety." It is quite clear that the health aspect is the researcher's conjecture, not an evidence based conclusion. Don't confuse conjecture with data, this type of whimsy is typical in the closing phrases of much research, and not something to be held against them, or taken to heart. Furthermore, a closer reading regarding the raising of exits will reveal that it results in lower incidence of vehicle-pedestrian and vehicle-bicycle collision, compared to non-raised cycleway intersections, but a 70% increase in vehicle-vehicle collision. Concluding, "If parking bans and width of side streets are taken into consideration, it could be said that continuous cycle tracks (with the construction of raised exit) is safer than interrupted cycle tracks at both 3 and 4 armed non-signalised junctions." The type of raised exit also has no bearing on the 'safety' it affords. So the high upkeep paved areas along Bourke Street intersections are unnecessary, a far simpler solution could have been implemented, and they're not as safe an having no cycleway at all; and I agree those paved intersection look nice, until you have to live on them. Unfortunately the "more injuries but better overall health" argument is the same one used to support un-helmeted riding, but that's not an argument I can condone. I'm actually in support of cyclist’s rights, on the road, but against the cycleway as it has been implemented. It astonishes me that people can claim to be environmentally driven on one hand, and support this cycleway development on the other. It's the same wilful naivety that supports environmental disasters like the ethanol biofuel fraud, or the green washed Prius sales (look it up if you don't believe me). My "inexplicable hostility" is easily explained by the simple fact I am sick of being sold things under a green flag which are, in fact, detrimental to the environment. I'm just tired of being lied to, and it's extremely frustrating when others refuse to even consider that they might have been sold spin. I applaud StreetCorner for their intention to take questions to Council, but with all due respect, the council has been clear on its position regarding the cycleway. The decision here lies with the Sydney electorate, and I only hope they can see beyond the propaganda to make a real informed decision. You can lead people to the evidence, but you can't make them think.

That's a good post SMD. Actually I have found my passenger door (average car) can completely cover the southbound cycle lane. I drive & cycle and yes always careful opening driver door on shared vehicle/cycleway.

StreetCorner thanks for taking the Bourke St cycleway issues up with Council

Oh look - an innocent-looking but patronising implication that the other side of the argument is uninformed, unable to think, ungrounded in real-world experience, blinded by propaganda, or all the above. Very classy, InnerWest. You're lucky someone even took a bite at your Copenhagen bait, given the Dutch are far ahead of the Danes in both cycling numbers and safety. I like how you quietly ignored any mention of the Netherlands, the archetype of separated cycling, in this thread - even despite the unrivaled wealth of documentation about it on the web (such as the site I linked you to) - and instead focused on one report from a lesser cycling country that mostly contradicted your point anyway. Your mostly unchallenged insistence that the city's cycleways are environmentally bad and expensive to maintain is whimsical conjecture at best; transport mode changes aside, a 9kg bike causes far less surface damage than a 1500kg car or a 3000kg truck. In summary: "I'm just tired of being lied to, and it's extremely frustrating when others refuse to even consider that they might have been sold spin. The decision here lies with the Sydney electorate, and I only hope they can see beyond the propaganda to make a real informed decision. You can lead people to the evidence, but you can't make them think."

Dear StreetCorner: Thanks for taking up Bourke St Cycleway questions with Lord Mayor Clover Moore MP. Disclaimer: The questions that follow represent the views of some, but not all residents & businesses. Question 1: Shared paths for pedestrians and cyclists are dangerous mix. There has been much criticism of Sydney City Council’s shared pedestrian-cycle ways throughout the inner city. Could you review existing shared paths, particularly where the footpath is narrow with a analysis of returning them to pedestrians?; Question 2: Please provide researched evidence that separated cycleways, such as on Bourke St is safe for our kids to ride on; Question 3: Elderly and disabled residents have experienced crossing the Bourke St cycleway is dangerous. This is because cyclists ignore them on them on the cycleway footpaths. Will you consider imposing a cyclist’s speed limit of 10kph along the cycle path? ; Question 4: Will Council put into practice and enforce bike riders must giving way to people on the shared paths?; Question 5: With the cycleway open many Bourke Street residents say it’s nowhere near as pleasant a place to live as it was, prior to the cycleway. It’s an inconsistency, as many themselves ride bikes and agree with cycleways in principle. For example, Bourke St from Taylor Square to Cleveland St has been seriously narrowed by the cycleway. Residents have reported their car door rear vision mirrors being torn off by passing traffic. Also where Bourke St turns between Phelps and Devonshire Sts traffic moves across the road into the line of oncoming traffic. Would you undertake a review of the street width and consider making Bourke St from Taylor Square to Devonshire Sts one-way going south?; Question 6: It’s dangerous for vehicles turning across the cycleway - they are competing with cyclists riding at speeds of 30/40kph (going downhill) through 10kph shared zone intersections and ignoring red light. Who is responsible for enforcing cyclists to go through shared zones at 10kph and obey cycleway red lights; Question 7: Cyclists should be required to be licensed or recognisable by means of a number plate. Would you please investigate this matter? Question 8: You frequently report on the numbers of cyclists using separated cycleways. Would you provide the link to the actual documents so that residents can investigate this matter further?; Question 9: Why do council staff continue to use sedans and utes for their own private use, at ratepayers expense?; Question 10: One of the primary complaints of City Council cycleways is that they are mainly used by non-residents, at great expense to existing residents. When will cyclists be made to financially contribute to paying for the separated cycleways by way a registration fee?

I am a Tradie living in Alexandria and regularly drive along Bourke street "Road" between Whyndam Street to Gargeners Road to Bunnings,I rearly spot a push bike rider using the track. I think Clover got it wrong and wasted lots of our money, not to mention the business's she sent broke alond bourke Road. A time lapse camera on Bourke Road for a week would be good:>) This is overly congested Sydney Clover, not Amsterdam

Nichols Street. You could always organise an anti cycle path rally at say, Sydney Town Hall. What that you say, you already did? What happened? Oh that’s right, no one turned up. Perhaps you could try again.

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Here's a nice link to an article showing just the depths that Mr Brain Noad a.k.a the one person Nicolas St Community Group will sink in order to talk down the hugely successful cycleways. http://digitaleskimo.tumblr.com/post/104... The article says that Mr Noad had claimed that the popular Remy & Lee's cafe had closed due to the cycleway being 'generally empty'and them getting no customers. Lee himself has stated that the cafe enjoyed increased patronage due to the cycleway and they closed because the lease was up and they decided to do other things. I just can't take Mr Noad seriously.

I've started commuting to work by bike from Maroubra to the CBD. The Bourke street cycle path means that I don't have to go down Flinders street - I trundle on the pavement for the few hundred metres down Fitzroy street (from centennial park) - there is a bike painted on the path and I ride early in the morning so there is noone on the footpath, onto Bourke street cyclepath, then I go through Taylor square onto the bus lane on Oxford street which is great. The whole world needs to get more people on bikes, that's an inescapable fact. World population will be too big to support so many cars, but the patchy infrastructure for bikes in Sydney at the moment is not safe enough for most novice bike riders. I am not super fit but I have confidence on the bike and road sense, I used to commute in London. Cyclists need to use a great deal of judgement, and yes that includes using pavement when safe as long as you're going slowly. My point - local government has decided for better or worse to use the 'softly softly' approach to introducing Sydneysiders to cyclists. Every time they want to put a cycle path in a street they will face opposition, but it is for the best and it has encouraged some to get off their arses including me. Taxpayers will not be subsidising my diabetes/obesity/heart problems etc in the future as I will be fit and healthy.

The city of Sydney is too important to have a ditz like her in charge - the council needs to be abolished government control assumed. When she stops using vehicles herself, she will have the right to ask others not to drive. But there is a reason she still uses cars - it's because in her loopy mind she actually believes that only she and her friends are allowed to drive in the city and you are not. She honestly thinks she should be the only one with privilege and those filthy westy peasants should not have cars or convenience like her. That is her thinking - even if she can't publicly say it. She simply hates people from the western suburbs and the attacks on cars are a disguised class war she is waging. It's very scary as it means there must be lots and lots of even stupider people keeping her in that job.

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